Curse

Bale_Shadowscar · May 11, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

We bought the game, so we are entitled to have these things, specifically becasue we HAVE paid.

Can I ask what you feel you are entitled to?

Are you entitled to any changes you want made to the game?
Are you entitled to All the development team plans for every update in the future with exact timescales, dates details etc?
Are you entitled to complain angrily to ANet about anything that doesn't suit you?

Age · May 11, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

We're impatient because things that should have been fixed BEFORE or along with the release of hard mode have not. We havent asked for anything we didnt before hard mode. Hell we didnt even ask for a 'hard mode' in the first place.

That is what I was wondering and it isn't being played all the much as I visit districts here and there.

Lydz · May 11, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I agree with the OP. People simply think they are entitled to things. It is pretty childish. You should be grateful that ArenaNet is a company that actually makes changes, unlike some who make the game, release it, and hope they'll make a profit by releasing an expansion every few years or so. ANet is constantly tweaking the game and trying to make it better.

If there was no passion for Guild Wars and it's community, Guild Wars wouldn't be what it is. Is you think this is not true, you wouldn't be playing the game in the first place. A game can't just be *made.* It requires dedication and inspiration. I'd like to see the majority of these people complaining try and implement some of what they're asking for if they had the abilities. Things take time, and with the expansion and GW2 in development, you're going to have to accept the fact that they are busy trying to make YOUR experience better in the next game.

Vermilion · May 11, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Random: Making a game and sorta encouraging "breaks" may seem like a good idea, but making said game anything like an MMO..maybe not.

Every MMO in existence pretty much has been made with the understanding that you're going to waste your life on it.

teenchi · May 11, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I agree with all of the people who are saying that it's about perspective and people thinking they are entitled to more in a game with no monthly fee. I can see being fed up with dev if I were paying a monthly fee. However, I don't, so I'm happy. I felt like I was looking for a game just like GW forever to play online that had no monthly fee so I'm pretty thankful that I found what I was looking for. Also, the more you live in this game and less in your real life, the unhappier you are going to become with the game. It would get pretty redundant I could imagine if I never left my computer chair. I've been a casual player for 2 years now, I play all 10 professions and I'm still finding new stuff to do. It really boils down to, no matter what they do, they can't please everyone. If this game isn't a fit for you any longer, stop playing.

Pwny Ride · May 12, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

Things like Hard Mode are free and are not included in the description of Prophecies, Factions, or Nightfall. Therefore you haven't paid for these features and they were released based on ArenaNet's love for the community.

So the money we payed for the campaigns have been used towards...lunch money? New Cars? Candy?

jzupko · May 12, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

So the money we payed for the campaigns have been used towards...lunch money? New Cars? Candy?

Um, actually, probably. That money pays salaries. For most games, that's about all it can pay (believe this or no, I've had managers describe the profit/cost margins of some game companies to me, it's really kind of scary...). I don't know about you, but I buy lunch with money. And candy. Someday a new car. Mmmmmmmmm. Candy.

Pwny Ride · May 12, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzupko

Um, actually, probably. That money pays salaries. For most games, that's about all it can pay (believe this or no, I've had managers describe the profit/cost margins of some game companies to me, it's really kind of scary...). I don't know about you, but I buy lunch with money. And candy. Someday a new car. Mmmmmmmmm. Candy.

Or not, correct me if im wrong (and i may be) but im sure that arenanet are a subsidiary to NCsoft
So in a way im sure you are correct, some money of course goes towards salaries, funding for game development, im sure it would be logical if the money for it came from the selling of Guild Wars specific merchandise. Of coures im not too sure on how it works, but im just putting it out there.

Matsumi · May 12, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

I don't really know about everyone else, but if I buy a game, the only thing I expect from it is to be able to play it. That's pretty much it for me. I don't think any of these updates or added features/fixes and content were things that were owed to me. I'm just glad that there's an actual support team working on bugs and fixes every now and then, and updating/improving the functionality of some features. "Nerfing" skills doesn't bother me at all really either. I don't expect whatever money I pay for a game to be my ticket to be entertained either. Trust me, I own LOTS of crappy games... some I return to for a little fun, some I have put away for good. If I didn't have fun when I play a game I just bought, I don't turn around and demand to be entertained. But that's just me.

I think if you're looking to buy a game where you feel entitled to anything at all, it should be a monthly fee subscription game like WoW or EQ. My old FPS buddies and I used to set up a public server for a game we all payed 50 dollars for, and when something needed upgrading or repair, or server costs needed attention, we paid for it. The people connecting on it and playing for free that didn't pay to play on our server weren't owed anything from my view. Except maybe, to have fun, and don't be a jerk or we'll have to kick you. Yea...

my take on it, from the box says "Free online play" and "game experience may change during online play".... check

Can I log in and play? .... check

The only thing I hope not to happen is lag

ShadowsRequiem · May 12, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

you dont live forever.

jzupko · May 12, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

Or not, correct me if im wrong (and i may be) but im sure that arenanet are a subsidiary to NCsoft
So in a way im sure you are correct, some money of course goes towards salaries, funding for game development, im sure it would be logical if the money for it came from the selling of Guild Wars specific merchandise. Of coures im not too sure on how it works, but im just putting it out there.

Well, my point was, it's not just *some* money, but like, the vast majority of the money. This isn't my area, and the conversation happened some time ago, but here's what I remember (if someone knows I've got these numbers wrong, please correct me). When this particular manager was in the business, a game needed to sell at least 500,000 units before everyone broke even. Meaning, anything less than that, and either the publisher was losing money, the game company, or both. Further, they needed to be one of those rare million sellers before the game company ended up with any real amount of working capital. Ergo, before the game company itself could fund development without a publisher for any length of time without running up loads of debt.

Games are hit driven. Most games lose money (like 90% most, more than 51% most). Publishers recoup the loses through the few multi-million sellers (GTAs, WoW). Now, this situation is probably different in the NCSoft/ArenaNet relationship, but the point, I think, is the same: ArenaNet, even with how well Guild Wars has done, is not rolling in piles of cash that they can just willy-nilly throw at projects that don't have a direct return on investment. Ergo, future products that get sold on the shelf. So, the stuff that comes out in-between - hard mode, sorrows furnance - is really just stuff they can squeeze into the budget which helps them by fostering goodwill. Expecting too much of it is, imho, unrealistic.

Amon Warrior · May 12, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

It all comes down to money isn't it?

It's funny how easy it is for gamers to complain about delays in updates and then being dismissive on the funding that is necessary to keep it all going.

Making impatient remarks such as accusing Anet of just wanting our money - when they adopted such an unusual business model - is ironic to say the least.

Nobody likes for their escapist bubble to burst now and then, but only in a fantasy world one would think that Anet could keep coming with new and cool content as fast as people start getting bored and impatient.

I for one think that they are spoiling us with a cascade of ongoing content based on not what's ideal, but on what's possible for them to come up with.

And I hope that this influx doesn't dry out, because the real challenge for Anet will be to keep the interest in the game, and even gain new players, until the launch of Guild Wars 2 (which presumably will contain all the ideal stuff we've been asking for). That is the true test between everyone's patience and their stamina.

reetkever · May 12, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Everyone is impatient because A-Net is only reading what they want to read.

While A-Net is doing stuff about mini-oets, they are ignoring the trading/farming and Soul Reaping problems.

Even if they DO make a topic about it, and we post there, there often is no response.

Also, because what A-Net says and does are 2 different things, it's hard to say what they actually want, and what their view on some things is. A-Net is only talking to the people who like the game, and is usually ignoring the people complaining. THAT, my friend, is what's making people impatient.

lacasner · May 12, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

People are impatient because they actually have a grasp of the time-reality relationship?

rkubik · May 13, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

Speak for yourself. Guild Wars hasn't messed me up, i dont know what you're on about. My view~ We bought the game, so we are entitled to have these things, specifically becasue we HAVE paid.

I agree with this, we paid for the game all the other updates and improvements are just extras that I do not expect or feel I am entitled to anything besides what I paid for on day one. I think all in all A-Net does a good job of updates and new content.

Kuldebar Valiturus · May 13, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkubik

I agree with this, we paid for the game all the other updates and improvements are just extras that I do not expect or feel I am entitled to anything besides what I paid for on day one. I think all in all A-Net does a good job of updates and new content.

I don't think you do agree with Pwny Ride. You are both actually saying different things. Granted, if you feel like ANet hasn't delivered the content that was on the box, that's a matter of opinion and you are entitled to have that opinion and it can be debated. But, concerning all the content and improvements and changes that have been implemented in the game after the purchase, that's all just icing on the cake.

Pwny Ride seems to think the icing is what he/she paid for, and I disagree and feel that these things are truly "free" and not part of ANet's obligation to players based on the original purchase.

It's simply good business to retain customers, so ANet does this by value added service. It's called going above and beyond the call of duty. Honor was served the first day you successfully played your purchased copy of Guild Wars, any thing beyond that is truly extra.

Let's pretend that we had to make a choice of ANet either:

A.) Only "fixing" bugs and tweaking skill balance issues

Or

B.) Adding more content and game improvements to released material

For me, if forced to choose, I'd probably choose "B" because I feel that the the game is largely bug free, and from a PvE stand point, I haven't ran into any skill issues. But, that's my opinion and, why should my opinion be expected to reflect every player?

But, we don't have to choose, Anet does both "A" and "B".

The problem is that some people want everything (both A & B) prioritized their way and aren't happy with ANet's project scheduling. But, just how long does one expect the 50 bucks spent as long ago as 2 years ago to fund new content and constant tweaking AND the right to control ANet's project planning? How about we let ANet manage their own pocket books and project planning without resorting to the silliness of saying, "We are getting cheated if they don't do something the way we want, when we want, and how we want."

Dialog and community discussion is good, using a misplaced sense of entitlement as a basis for throwing non-constructive temper tantrums is not good.

The one time payment for a campaign in Guild Wars does not legally make ANet our personal slaves for all eternity. We got the game and the content that was released at that time, every thing else is the cherry on the top and ANet's way of keeping it's customer base happy and engaged. ANet's has to be sure footed with it's franchise and can not make too many missteps. Anet doesn't have $14.95 a month coming in from each one of us. It can't throw money at every problem to fix something or make it go away.

So go ahead, have opinions about the game and it's content, that's fine and expected, but just don't tell me you haven't got your money's worth, because that's an entirely unreasonable and unsupported claim.

defrule · May 13, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

OK all you people who think updates and improvements are extras. Would you like to have a Guild Wars which had a bugged ascension letting you get XP over and over again?

Would you like the Tyrian 15K Tormented Necro armour and 15K glads armor to be the same as the 1.5K ones? Would you like to stay in the days of Nature's Renewal, spirit spam, long lasting fertile, spammable putrid, ether renewel, prot bond invincimonks, fragility spiking, orders stacking, edrain/etap, chain lightning and many more?

These are "updates and improvements", and after all it's not like they were bugged, they did what was in their description. We didn't pay for these improvements so I wuld imagine a lot of you wouldn't mind having all the prenerfed things above.

Jeremy Untouchable · May 13, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

i lurve hard mode myself, gold max drops of weapons in low lvl areas...ftw

Liberations · May 13, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Nuclear Eclipse you are smarter than most of the people who are on this forum.

The truth: Guild Wars is not a game you should play too obsessively. Who's up for some Pokemon?

Bahumhat · May 13, 2007, 04:08 AM // 04:08

My 2cents.....

Anet is busy with the expansion thats being released this year, and its supossed to keep us busy until 2009-2010(for hardcore GW fans)

If you think the communication is horrible, or you feel like you're feeling left in the dark, then join the chat(i forgot the date for it) Anet is hosting on gamespy(i think thats it)

If you think theres not enough stuff to do theres a chance you havent beaten all the Elite missions in Factions. DoA in NF completely. Or even Mallyx(i think he's in DoA, so meh). Farmed enough money to buy all 10k/15k armors(hey, its something to do) maybe enven FoW. I doubt you've gotten to atleast rank 10 in pvp, or your guild to atleast top 100. Level every single profession(or try) to level 20 or unlock all skills for every profession. Earned all the titles(and max the ones you can), or play HvH battles until you become rank 1(or like top 100)

I think thats plenty of stuff for you to spend your time on, until GW:EN or GW2

(sorry for any typos, grammar errors etc. if you really bothers you that much *cough*Grammar Nazi*cough*

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